Zombies don't atack any survivor

[Fry]

Is this normal? They shot already, and zeds do nothing against :/ i'm new to this mod, by the way.

[DayZ_SP]

Yes, this is normal, unfortunately.

This is one thing Unknown and Zed Hunter should address ASAP since it is a vital part of the SP experience since there are no other live humans (Survivors) in the game to help the player out.

I am testing DaiyZ on Zargabad... Using all the features from the Chernaus 42c map + the new DaiyZ code package that was released... And I set up Survivor spawn points at different places around the map. When I triggered them, Survivors appeared and I was able to command them like normal soldiers in ArmA 2. I had a five man Survivor "squad" and we were Zed hunting while looking for loot.

The Survivor squad did fine at engaging Zeds at long range, but when a Zed manged to break through our perimeter, it went straight after me (player) and none of the AI Survivors would fire on it!

[Pierry]

Are you using a different code for them? I personally would love to make AI attack zed ALL THE TIME not just when they spawn in the area. The code that was in .38b was actually pretty good just that loot bug. I just don't get why it is so complicated. It seems like when a zed is nearby the AI it auto marks them as enemy. If anyone has a better code for AIs please share it with me :/

Thanks.

[DayZ_SP]

I am currently play testing with the latest code that was uploaded (it's all in one package; it's no longer Green HUD, Red Hud, etc.) with the latest 42c map files as well.

Here is what I have found so far after looking through the code as well as mission (map) files:

I *think* the reason the AI Survivors don't engage the Zombies is because they are classified as CIVILIANS and ArmA2 is meant to mimic proper rules of engagement e.g. don't fire on civilians UNLESS they are a threat.

So, I think what happens is once the Zeds spawn, the Survivor AI (which is classified as "west" (Blufor)) does see them as a threat since the Zeds are classified as "east"... But they don't follow through once their class overrides their "side" (east) and they become "Civilians".

I am not a programmer/scripter at all... I am learning ;) ... But this *seems* to be why the AI Survivors have a hard time just annihilating the Zeds on-sight like humans and real soldiers would. I am probably way off base, however...

[Niceonegunit]

This is partly right, DayZ SP.

What happens is, because BLUFOR units cannot fire at civilian classed units, they are set so that an automatic attack command is issued to each zombie until they are dead. For example, if you play ArmA 2, you can command your squad to attack a certain unit.

It randomly targets different zombies, only changing the attack order once the Zed is dead.

Civilian units, no matter what side they are placed on, are still classified civilians. Thus they do not attack the BLUFOR and vice versa. If this was overidden, BLUFOR/Survivors would shoot buildings, loot piles, and other ambient objects.


Zombies do not attack them as the coding only allows them to target actual player units. It will not attack AI units.

I am however coding some stuff for DaiZy and might look into a way to fix this.

[Telesterion]

I'm pretty sure I remember reading something about getting zeds to attack AI but it also resulted in a bug where the zed's could target the player from unrealistic distances. It's just very difficult to reverse engineer because of the way Rocket built the mod.

[DayZ_SP]

What happens is, because BLUFOR units cannot fire at civilian classed units, they are set so that an automatic attack command is issued to each zombie until they are dead. For example, if you play ArmA 2, you can command your squad to attack a certain unit.

It randomly targets different zombies, only changing the attack order once the Zed is dead.

Civilian units, no matter what side they are placed on, are still classified civilians. Thus they do not attack the BLUFOR and vice versa. If this was overidden, BLUFOR/Survivors would shoot buildings, loot piles, and other ambient objects.


Zombies do not attack them as the coding only allows them to target actual player units. It will not attack AI units.

I am however coding some stuff for DaiZy and might look into a way to fix this.

One way around this might be to recode the Zombie faction (Class) to "East" instead of Civilian?

It's a quick and dirty fix, but it is the most efficient and guarantees AI Survivors (Blufor) attacking the Zombies and not letting up until they are dead, or the human survivor issues the cease fire order. It also allows for the human player to prioritize targets like in standard ArmA 2. I'm willing to put up with the Zombies attacking only the human player if I have better control over my AI fire squad that will hopefully keep the Zombies at bay.

As part of my on-going experiments, I tried using the "SideEnemy" string as well as different variations (side = SideEnemy; addSide = EAST) in the Editor while experimenting with just placing a Zombie and AI Survivor units on a map with myself to see what would happen with no triggers and no scripting of any kind.

What finally triggered the AI Survivor to engage the Zombie was after I text edited the CLASS in the mission.sqm file of the test map. I changed the Zombie class (faction) from CIV to EAST.

Now, this was a very simple test... But it is a proof of concept of what I think may need to be done on a much deeper level that is beyond my capabilities.

This is also why I made the request on this forum to basically remove some of the MP features and give SP mission makers like myself a "DayZ" module (the random loot, AI Bandits and Zombies) so we could then create more dramatic and structured SP missions around it.

It's interesting, but researching all of this technical stuff, you can see the differences between an SP and MP game play experience even it is all part of the same game...

[DayZ_SP]

UPDATE:

I apologize for bringing this up again, but I feel this is one of the most important features of the mod.

The ability for AI Survivors to freely engage Zeds AT ANY TIME will make SP game play much, much more enjoyable than it is already, IMO.

It will allow the player to focus on scavenging loot while the AI protects the area around the house, building, etc.

It should be no surprise a party of you and two (or more) AI "buddies" exploring a map resembles many MMORPGs and other open world adventure games where you raid dungeons and other places. That's why having competent AI that can freely engage Zeds at all times (not just when they first spawn) is vital to this kind of free roaming, SP experience.

The reason this needs to be fixed... as much as it possibly can... Is because anybody can deploy the DaiyZ system on ANY map once you know how everything works. Like I said, I am testing it on Zargabad, and it's the most fun I've had so far with this Mod. There is virtually no lag because of the wide open desert spaces, but there are also enough cities and small towns to provide you with enough loot, too. Hell, I just found a tent which I never found online!

So, this is why I feel AI Survivors being able to engage Zeds at any time needs to be one of the priorities Unknown, and the other developers concentrate on the most as well as other things they want to include and experiment with.

It's ironic that had Rocket just used standard OPFOR, or "East" units for the Zeds this problem would probably not even exist...

[DayZ_SP]

Niceonegunit posted this on another thread:

Right now, I'm focusing on bandits and survivors right now. I'm trying to get them to shoot zombies and zombies attack them.

BASIC PROBLEM:

-Rocket decided to classify the AI Zeds as "Civilian" (CIV) when creating the original DayZ MP mod.

-Zeds spawn as the player approaches buildings like houses, stores, etc.

-DaiyZ SP introduces AI Survivors and Bandits (normally played by humans) into the mix.

-AI Survivors & AI Bandits are classed as BLUFOR and cannot engage CIV targets by default. Not only is this supposed to mimic realistic training of military forces, but it also prevents AI BLUFOR from just shooting up the world since objects, markers and other behind-the-scenes elements are also classed as CIV, too.

-There are various custom scripts and commands mission makers can use to turn CIVs hostile toward BLUFOR, or any other side. However, these scripts apply to CIV units that have already been placed on the map before the mission starts. They do not apply to DayZ because the Zeds are dynamically spawned.

-So, the base problem is how to turn CIV units (Zeds) into hostile units the AI Survivors and AI Bandits see as constant threats classed either as CIVs, or possibly OPFOR after they spawn.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:

Maybe after a Zed spawns, he is grouped with an invisible OPFOR solder?

The "doFire" and "doTarget" strings no longer work in ARMA OA 1.60, and above. So, scripters can't just tell AI Survivors and Bandits to simply fire on CIVs once they (Survivors and Bandits) spawn...

[DayZ_SP]

UPDATE 2:

OK, I *think* I've figured it out:

1) You (whomever) need to decompile the dayz.pbo from the DayZ mod install.

2) You then need to de-rap the config.bin using "unRap" found in the ARMA Tools download at BIS.

3) You then need to open Cfg.Vehicles.hpp using Notepad, Notepad++, ArmaEdit, etc.

4) You need to change the following lines...

class CfgVehicles {
        class Civilian1; // External class reference
       
        class zZombie_Base : Civilian1  {
                scope = public;

You need to change "Civilian1" to a group/faction that is HOSTILE to BLUFOR... Like INS (Insurgents), GUE (Guerillas) and even the good old Russians (RU).

HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM:

You can't just change the base class and be done with it. I tried, and it was an epic fail! The game won't even load and I had a classic CTD.  

What has to happen is somebody needs to go through every Zombie character model that uses the "Civilian" class/faction as a base and REPLACE them with appropriate models and references to whatever hostile (EAST) class you choose.

This is why a simple class change won't work.

Civilians are unique because their class IS the same as their faction whereas a Russian Rifleman, for example, his class is Rifleman, but his faction is Russia (EAST), obviously.

If that wasn't enough, editing the base class/faction may also effect the 3D character model references Rocket lists just below this (It may, or may not; I'm not that skilled in mod editing).

In addition, you may have to go through steps 1-3 with the dayz_anim.pbo and edit the CfgVehicle.hpp in there to allow classes that aren't Civilian based since Rocket commented all of them out. And I mean all of them. Like over a 100!

So, you can see this is almost more work than it is worth just to get AI Survivors to view Zeds as constant threats... And possibly have Zeds attack AI Survivors and Bandits in return.

If somebody wants to do this... *hint,Niceonegunit,hint*... I would be forever grateful, but the even larger problem is all of this might change in the next version that might be released tomorrow, for example.

Oy, vey!

[Fry]

There is some way to disable the survivors, i don't want any help if they can't be killed by zeds. :/ just me, zombies, and the bandits. :D how can i do that?

[DayZ_SP]

To disable the Survivors, you need to...

1) Decompile whatever map you are currently playing on.

2) Go into the Mission Editor, load the map.

3) DELETE all the TRIGGERS that have...

"_nul = call fnc_doSomething_survivor;"

...In the INT (Initialization) box.

(They are also labeled "Survivor"; how convenient!)

4) Save (export) the map.

When you go into the game, there should be no more Survivors spawned. You can do the same for Bandits, too, obviously.

I REALLY WISH ROCKET HAD USED A STANDARD OPFOR base for the Zed groups. It could have been THAT simple to have AI Survivors and Bandits engage Zeds all the time and Zeds target them back! ARRGGHHHH!

[FoxDIE]

Hello! looks like you know how to handdle arma II tools so maybe you can tell me if this script coud solve the problem between the bandist/survivors and the infecteds

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?141779-Civilians-strike-back

Hope its works!

[DayZ_SP]

FoxDIE wrote

Hello! looks like you know how to handdle arma II tools so maybe you can tell me if this script coud solve the problem between the bandist/survivors and the infecteds

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?141779-Civilians-strike-back

Hope its works!

No.

This script will not work because like most scripts, it assumes the Civilians are already placed on the map and not spawned dynamically like the Zeds are in DayZ. One of them also relies on how many Civilians you kill and if you translate that to DayZ that's a lot of Zombies which is almost the exact opposite of what you are supposed to be doing in DayZ (avoiding them, staying out of sight, etc).

The problem is as stated above:

Rocket used the "Civiilian1" base/faction as a template for the Zombie models and game logic since they are supposed to be undead civilians (versus soldiers). He never thought (or didn't think it would be so soon) AI Survivors and AI Bandits would be introduced into the mod who need an "enemy" to fight. The problem is the Civilian class is never considered hostile by BLUFOR (Survivors, Bandits) for the reasons I went into in my previous posts above. This is also why the Zeds only attack the player and never the AI Survivors, or Bandits, either.

The only solution (that I am aware of) is to change the Zombie's base faction/group at the base level (before they spawn), but that's not very easy due to how Rocket set up and modified the player model animations and base characters he is referencing from the original Arma II (PMC and OA).

[DayZ_SP]

UPDATE 3:

I have pretty much come to the end of what I can do as far as my limited abilities with ArmA 2, unfortunately.

I managed to construct and execute a Helo extraction using Cheranus 42c... But the helicopter would not take off once it landed to pick me up. I am pretty sure this is because (once again) of how Rocket coded the player and his/her class as well as the randomized spawning.

My guess is the Mod doesn't know how to recognize the player as a valid unit (since the extraction script checks to see if a unit is onboard before the helo takes off), so that's probably why the helo just sits there on the road even after I do get on.

It's a shame because the experience of making my way down the coast to the extraction point and finally seeing the words "You Survived! Now, Wait For The Helicopter..." are what gaming is all about, IMO. It was a feeling of accomplishment after a few hours of standard DayZ gameplay (sneaking, looting, fighting) and resembled a real SP "campaign" with a real goal... But then the dman helo would not take off once I got on board

The game is just too incomplete at this phase (it's an Alpha, obviously!) to provide basic functionality like we've been discussing for a decent SP experience e.g. AI Survivors and Bandits engage Zeds, Zeds attack AI Survivors and Bandits, you can script normal functions like extractions, insertions, etc. It's really a shame because with these features this would be one of the greatest Zombie games... MP or SP... That has come along in a very long time, IMO.

So, I am just going to wait for the standalone and see what Rocket and BIS have in store.

However, I know the core of the game is a MMOG, so I am not expecting an in-depth SP portion aside from probably a few tutorial missions that resemble the standard ArmA 2 Boot Camp scenarios. Oh, well...

[zedhunter]

TLDR: Too bad, I don't do executive summaries...

I wanted to chime in on this, as I have done a lot of work in seeing what the gameplay is like when you mess with the zed-as-civilian mechanic that was written into DayZ.

You can change the bases around, but zeds do not know how to attack non-players, searching for targets and the effects they have (damage, knockout, limb-breaking, panic, etc) are all applied on player logic, written into global variables. If you are going to use this approach, you need to rewrite all of the zombie effect spaghetti in the DayZ mod. Not appetizing, to say the least, nor is it in any way advisable. This is why you will likely not see zeds really attacking your teammates in any meaningful way. This is lamentable, because it really makes sense to have zeds chawin' on everybody around that is not a zed.

The other side of the equation is making AIs attack zeds. The zed classes are hard coded civilian units, and I would not recommend messing with this, as it may break some things, and modifying DayZ pbos with a mission is what I would consider a last resort. The approach I am using currently is a script that continuously adjusts the rating of zeds around the player or any unit that you want to be hostile toward them.

When a unit is rated (with addRating) lower than -2000, he is considered an enemy to all, regardless of side relations. You can scan for zeds in an area and rate them down so that they are attacked. The script I have going at the moment does its job well so far, but it alters the gameplay in some significant ways. There are times that you want zombies to be attacked, and times you don't. I am working on the following:

- Survivor Zed ROE: Specify whether you want zeds attacked indiscriminately, only when aggro, or ignored completely. This could be incorporated into the Engage command menu or someplace.

- Context: When should we make zeds enemies? Around whom? Marking all zeds just makes everyone (including bandits and such) fire on them, which may not necessarily be desired. It's very un-DayZ-like. Players don't run amok slaying zeds -- it's useless to waste ammo on ever-spawning critters carrying aluminum cans

- Performance, Bugs: What bugs and performance problems does doing this introduce? I have play-tested various schemes quite a bit, and making the behavior player-centric, subdued, and specific seems to have the best result. I am still looking for ill effects, and figuring out how much realism I can get away with. Will advise.

- Right to exist: Does it belong in DaiZy? I think so. Unknown wrote in the quick-and-dirty rater at bandit spawn time (which will not help with zeds spawned after bandits/survivors are created), so he seems to want the zeds to be engaged by the AI. Question is, what is the right way to do it, and what will we all enjoy the most? I am still trying to figure that out.

Feel free to chime in.

ZH